Tribes

Sub-Grouping  Critera

All members of our Project belong to Haplogroup T2b5a, so we all match one another.

However, some members match closer than others. That is what sub-grouping is about.

 We want to know who is a closer match and who is a more distant match. When we match someone exactly (GD 0) we should expect to have a common ancestor somewhere between one and Fifteen Generations. Those we match at GD 1,2 or 3 will  likely be further removed in time. So, it is important to identify our closest matches.

As the Project has progressed and new project members have joined there have been a few who do not necessarily match everyone else in the project. However, I have grouped those people in Tribes with others that they DO match.

The page has been created to primarily to help Project Members. However, it is publicly displayed for others to see, particularly those who are related to Project members but who do not share the T2a5b Haplogroup as they often are the genealogists in the family and might be able to help us.

Project members can view their own FTDNA personal page to see their personal matches and are able to contact matches through the email link next to their match’s name on their match page.

On this page we have used only the surnames of matches, no first names and no email addresses. We want to keep the Project private as much as possible from others not in the Project while Project members still know who their matches are and how to contact them. If someone not in the Project wishes to contact a Project member they are welcome to contact Mic at mic@micbarnette.com. Their inquiry will be forwarded to the Project Member.

Be sure to visit the Results Page on FTDNA website at  https://www.familytreedna.com/public/T2b5amtDNAHaplogroup?iframe=mtresults

Be sure to read the link on that page about Understanding Mt-DNA Results.

Below are several charts created to show how members of our project are the same and how they differ.

Each chart shows the member’s FTDNA kit number, their surname, how many mt-dna matches total they have in the FTDNA database, and the number of Genetic Distance 0, 1, 2, and 3 they have.

Member first names are not used for privacy reasons. Surnames are used so that each member can go to their own personal match list and be able to identify their personal matches.

Since I created the Project I had to have some idea how to distinguish members one from another. Initially, I had to have a beginning point. I chose to be self centered using my cousin(s) who took the test and were classified as T2b5a. Those cousins were Browning and Neve. So, Tribes were created to coincide with Genetic Distance matches to those cousins. Those matches matching them closer were Genetic Distance 0, then GD 1, 2 and 3. Therefore, you will see Browning and Neve in Tribe Alpha. And those matching them further distant in Tribes Beta, Gamma and Delta in later Tribes. This system seems to have worked well as the project progressed.

Tribes are arbitrary classifications. We could have called them “Groups” , “Clans”, or we could have used numbers or letters or any other nomenclature.  In the K1a4ab2 Mt-DNA Project which is Mic’s personal haplogroup, we used the term “Tribe” to distinguish different groups, so, we have decided to continue using that title.

For some out of the blue reason, we chose to use letters of the Greek Alphabet to distinguish between groups. Thus, Alpha, Beta, Gamma, Delta.

On the Administrator Sub-grouping page where the Results Page of the FTDNA website is created there was a problem with setting the order on a page of the various tribes. The page wanted to organize the groups either alphabetically or reverse alphabetically. We were using the Greek Alphabet-Alpha, Beta, Gamma, Delta. The page wanted to alphabetized Delta before Gamma. So, numbers were placed before the Greek name to make the computer list the Tribes Alpha, Beta, Gamma, Delta.

The order members of each tribe are placed is taken from the Results Page on FTDNA. I chose, within a Tribe, to maintain the exact order as members are listed on the Results Page after they were sub-grouped. While I do not know anything about the algorithim FTDNA is using on the Results Page I can tell they have placed members together who have the same matches and Genetic Distance matches.

Another question….How many matches are there in the ftdna database?

There are over 2500 for those in Tribe Alpha in the HVR1 catagory, meaning that many people have have taken at least the first level Mt-DNA test. This test is no longer sold but those people can and should upgrade. Only the Full Mt-DNA test is of any benefit to anyone and the FMS data is what is used in this project.

So, in July 2020 those in Tribe Alpha had 164 FMS matches and on March 1, 2021 they had 167. This total included all or most of those in the other Tribes of this project. Likewise project members in the other Tribes had similar totals including all those in all tribes of this project. To be more precise on a specific individual one would have to visit their own personal matches.

In July 2020 Tribe Beta had 166 total matches except for 2 members who each had 152 matches. As of March 1, 2021 those who had 166 now have 169 matches, etc

In July 2020 Tribe Gamma some members had 145, two  had142, one had 104 an one had 100 matches.

Tribe Delta saw the most variation overall of all those members in any project. One member had 55, one 199 and one 126 matches. Each of them now have two or three more matches due to the addition of new matches in the project.

On Sunday July 12. 2020  I spent literally ALL day, probably 10-12 hours writing, addressing and sending out about 164 invitations to join our Project and setting up the project and project website.  Later that night there were about 12 joins and several the next day and several trickling in since then. Even as late as today, July 20, 2020 we had two more join for a total of 26 members. The two joins today had no effect on the number of member matches (I went back and checked) in the chart totals presented below as the new joins were already in the FTDNA database and were not new test kits but new members joining from the original database matches.

On Sunday February 28 and Monday March 1, 2021 I updated the numbers again. As of March 1, 2021 we had a total of 38 members (up 12 members since July 2020) including one that does not show a Mt-DNA test at this time and is not being counted. Some of the 12 members came from the original database matches and some were new people testing

Here is the historical statistics page for information previous to March 1, 2021 Here

Bottom line is….Find yourself in the charts below, the Results Page and then go to your Personal Page on FTDNA. Each item will relate the same way but may tell you something the other does not say.

What is important to you is who and how close others match you. You should then work with those matches-they are going to be your closest relatives. Work with them to reconstruct your and their family lineage-somewhere in that lineage you are going to find you Most Recent Common Ancestress.

Remember, this is not MY Project, it is OUR Project. I am in it to learn what I can to further my genealogical lineage and to do so, I need your help. I need you working on your own lineage and matches.

Go to your personal page and check your matches, preferably, your 0 Genetic Matches.Take note of your GD 1, 2 and 3 matches as well.  Unless you are in Tribe Alpha, YOUR GD 0 (and other) matches will not be the same as my cousins’. My cousins’ matches were only used to create the subgroup categories. Your Genetic Distance Matches will be found on your own Personal Page in FTDNA. Your Genetic Distance matches will be different than everyone else’s except your Tribal matches.

Look at your matches on your Personal Page and if you do not see those matches on the Results Page or the charts below, those people are not (yet) a part of our Project. Feel free to contact them and suggest they visit our pages and urge them to join our Project. The more participating in the Project will enhance what we get out of it.

Here is a link to the FTDNA Results Page with some more information and a list of each member of the project broken into tribes. The Genetic Distance information provided below come from your individual match page

https://www.familytreedna.com/public/T2b5amtDNAHaplogroup?iframe=mtresults

Remember, those with a haplotype T2b5a are all related. The genetic distance is what is setting us apart from other T2b5a matches.

Tribe T2b5a (1) Alpha

Updated March 1, 2021

Name	Matches	GD 0	GD1	GD 2	GD 3
Miller	167	53	48	53	13
Vaughn	167	53	48	53	13
Lake	167	53	48	53	13
Neve	167	53	48	53	13
Browning	167	53	48	53	13
Moon	167	53	48	53	13
Moser	167	53	48	53	13
Chapman	167	53	48	53	13
Dowd	167	53	48	53	13
Terry	167	53	48	53	13
McDermott	181	59	54	55	13

Tribe T2b5a (2) Beta

Updated March 15, 2021

Name	Matches	GD 0	GD 1	GD 2	GD 3
Atkins	154	0	54	47	53
Nave	154	0	54	47	53
Boardman	155	2	55	45	53
Halford	155	2	55	45	53
Laird	168	4	65	49	50
Johnson	169	30	90	24	25
Inman	169	30	90	24	25
Coates	169	32	88	24	25
Clifford	169	30	90	24	25
Rankin (Findt)	169	30	90	24	25
Krulee	169	30	90	24	25
Stark	169	30	90	24	25
Crow	169	30	90	24	25
Bailey	169	30	90	24	25

Tribe T2b5a (3) Gamma

Updated March 1, 2021

Name	Matches	GD 0	GD 1	GD 2	GD 3
LaVail	106	0	0	58	48
Butler	102	0	0	54	48
Pibil	130	5	5	65	55
Goldberg	130	5	5	65	55
Berert	144	0	31	89	24
Halfon	144	0	32	89	23
White	144	0	31	89	24
Workman Tremblay	147	19	36	73	19
Peel (Wilks)	147	19	36	73	19
Bowman	147	19	36	73	19
Armstrong	147	19	36	73	19
Havener	147	19	36	73	19
Torkelson	147	19	36	73	19

Tribe T2b5a (4) Delta

Updated March 1, 2021

Name	Matches	GD 0	GD 1	GD 2	GD 3
O’Maolochonaire	30	2	10	11	7
Scott	56	0	1	0	55
James	121	0	1	31	89
Grindle	128	0	20	35	73
Fajardo	71	0	6	4	61

Tribe T2b6a (1) Alpha

Updated November 20, 2021 Notice: this Haplogroup is different from and does not match any of those T2b5a above

Name	Matches	GD 0	GD 1	GD 2	GD 3
Dalton	148	37	29	64	18